tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post8903637831037828358..comments2023-12-29T00:08:21.051-08:00Comments on fear of a red planet: A Death In ChongqingGilman Grundyhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-18979995888688591542012-04-26T10:15:00.460-07:002012-04-26T10:15:00.460-07:00"it seems to me you're backtracking a bit...<b>"it seems to me you're backtracking a bit on the statement you made in your initial post, which definitely seemed to imply that working for the CCP is dangerous, especially when you go on about being accused of spying and your government not helping you."</b><br /><br />Maybe my point in saying that wasn't clear enough. My point was that in reality simply being a foreign citizen isn't much protection against injust attention from the CCP. <br /><br />The reason for this is demonstrated by my example - unless it is strongly in the national interest of your home country, your government will not expend influence in trying to help you, not least because this would likely encourage further injustices. Hence the odd situation where a falsely-accused spy remains in jail, whilst a real spy will be exchanged.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-90805939448517842362012-04-25T19:41:13.868-07:002012-04-25T19:41:13.868-07:00No worries about my comment being spammed.
In any...No worries about my comment being spammed.<br /><br />In any case it seems to me you're backtracking a bit on the statement you made in your initial post, which definitely seemed to imply that working for the CCP is dangerous, especially when you go on about being accused of spying and your government not helping you.<br /><br />I maintain that just working for the Chinese government is certainly far safer than crossing the road in Beijing.<br /><br />No doubt if you work for a Chinese state organ and then publicly denounce it while still in China, you are asking for trouble of some kind. Anyone who thought otherwise would have to be very naive indeed. I suppose Richard Burger wasn't naive, but took a calculated risk to defend his principles, and good for him.Ji Xianghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03406727999722525339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-54071116772553935922012-04-25T13:11:15.396-07:002012-04-25T13:11:15.396-07:00@Ji Xiang - First up, sory your comments got spamm...@Ji Xiang - First up, sory your comments got spammed. For some reason straight-up trolls like Mongol Warrior seem to get through, but legit comments get held in the spam queue.<br /><br /><b>"Pardon my ingnorance"</b><br /><br />Consider it pardoned.<br /><br /><b>"If all that happened to him was losing his job after openly denouncing the paper over how it covered an issue like that, I think it shows how working for the Chinese state media is not dangerous at all."</b><br /><br />Firstly "dangerous" was the word you used - I never said it. I said it could have negative comments. Clearly, in Richard Burger's case, it did.<br /><br />Secondly, if your choice of employers is dictated by only working for the ones which aren't openly physically dangerous to work for, you're going to have an interesting career. Us mere mortals consider being smeared and made <i>persona non grata</i> simply for reporting - accurately - that a Chinese state media outlet was engaging in astroturfing in order to further smear the name of an apparently innocent man being held under arrest without charge to be quite enough to stop us wanting to work for the Chinese state media.<br /><br />But then why don't you just email Richard Burger and ask him what he thinks?Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-91305771351433278072012-04-25T00:44:02.393-07:002012-04-25T00:44:02.393-07:00Pardon my ingnorance, but what happened to Richard...Pardon my ingnorance, but what happened to Richard Burger?<br /><br />I had a look at the Peking Duck, and I found the post in which he denounces how the Global Times dealt with Ai Wei Wei, however I can't find any posts in which he desrcibes the consequences of this. I can see he no longer works for them. I am supposing they got rid of him. <br /><br />He seems to be still blogging away happily. He certainly hasn't been accused of espionage or imprisoned. Has he been deported? I can't even find any evidence of that.<br /><br />If all that happened to him was losing his job after openly denouncing the paper over how it covered an issue like that, I think it shows how working for the Chinese state media is not dangerous at all. <br /><br />But if you have any information about bad stuff which happened to this Richard Burger as a consequence of his expose', please share, I am curious.Ji Xianghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03406727999722525339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-82631714016362916482012-04-24T18:50:47.173-07:002012-04-24T18:50:47.173-07:00Excuse my ignorance, but what happened to Richard ...Excuse my ignorance, but what happened to Richard Burger?<br /><br />I found the post in "the Peking Duck" where he talks about how the Global Times dealt with the Ai Wei Wei case. I couldn't find any post detailing the consequences of this. I take it he is no longer working there. <br /><br />As far as I can tell, he is still happily blogging away. He hasn't been killed or tortured, and he isn't rotting in jail. I am supposing he was sacked. From what I can tell, he hasn't even been deported from China.<br /><br />If you ever needed proof that working for the Chinese state media isn't dangerous, this is it.<br />This guy openly attacked the Global Times and exposed how they work, and yet he is still living happily in China, as far as I see. <br /><br />But if you have any links to any information on anything bad which happened to him as a result of what he revealed, let me know. I am curious.Ji Xianghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03406727999722525339noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-69794060918763893562012-04-24T02:49:47.879-07:002012-04-24T02:49:47.879-07:00"Don't you think your warning to foreigne...<b>"Don't you think your warning to foreigners not to work in any Chinese government organ is a bit over the top?"</b><br /><br />No.<br /><br /><b>"That British chap who died in Chongqing was a businessman, why not warn people against doing business in China? "</b><br /><br />He was a business man who reportedly carrying on with the wife of a major Chinese official whilst helping them launder money. Or maybe he wasn't, but just go mixed up with the wrong people - and it is "getting mixed up with the wrong people" that I am warning against here. <br /><br />There are plenty among the expat consulterati who believe that they can play the influence game and come away with clean hands - but if the people you have close relations with fall into official disfavour, then you too suffer. Your passport is no shield. <br /><br /><b>"I happen to know people who work for China Radio International, and the idea that they might be in danger has never occurred to either me or them."</b><br /><br />I also know people who work for CRI, friends who were aware that there were drawbacks to working for CRI but who thought it worth the risk anyway. This was their choice.<br /><br />If, however, your friends have never had any idea that there might be negative consequences to working for the propaganda arm of a dictatorship they need their heads examining. Or, at the very least, they should go and read about what happened to Richard Burger after he exposed various goings-on at <i>Global Times</i>.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-87077559422993007672012-04-23T18:50:13.048-07:002012-04-23T18:50:13.048-07:00Don't you think your warning to foreigners not...Don't you think your warning to foreigners not to work in any Chinese government organ is a bit over the top?<br />That British chap who died in Chongqing was a businessman, why not warn people against doing business in China? <br />I happen to know people who work for China Radio International, and the idea that they might be in danger has never occurred to either me or them.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-26099635860801162142012-04-13T04:30:21.928-07:002012-04-13T04:30:21.928-07:00Young Master Cooper, does it really surprise you t...Young Master Cooper, does it really surprise you to find yourself in agreement with a fellow language-phile educated in a Church of England school?<br /><br />At any rate, the moment when they could have done away with Madame Bo has passed. A trial now would be an updated version of Gang of Four cases - to big to do in private, and anyway the prupose of the proceedings is to wreck their public image. At least it seems unlikely that they would dislocate their jaws to prevent them from speaking as they did with the Gang of Four. <br /><br />@JR - Yup - the appropriate reaction would be scepticism, but Hague could hardly react in a different fashion. Of course this could still turn in a different direction - the rumours about Heywood being linked to MI6 could easily be given credence by the CCP and the Bo case excused as the result of a foreign plot.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-25135434354582547732012-04-12T23:42:11.228-07:002012-04-12T23:42:11.228-07:00Or even to make any investigation at all.Or even to make any investigation at all.Gilman Grundyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06607416440240634159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-65085477483741898062012-04-12T23:27:31.310-07:002012-04-12T23:27:31.310-07:00It's a bit strange to see William Hague expres...It's a bit strange to see <b>William Hague</b> express his delight about the <i>re-investigation</i> - it's quite possible that Heywood's death came from natural causes on the one hand, and if the re-investigation determines otherwise, one may wonder how credible the finding would be. I agree with <b>Mr. Cooper</b> - either a confirmation of the original finding or a reversal (i. e. stating that Heywood got killed) is possible.<br /><br />I doubt that the re-investigation's first concern will be to establish facts.justrecentlyhttp://justrecently.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9138994904411225576.post-88700494583621140392012-04-12T12:40:49.797-07:002012-04-12T12:40:49.797-07:00Wow, FOARP. I just looked outside to check for si...Wow, FOARP. I just looked outside to check for signs of airborne porcine lifeforms, because I never thought I'd actually find myself agreeing wholeheartedly with one of your posts. Here, though, I think you're pretty much dead-on - though I wouldn't say at all that you do not have much to add to the analysis.<br /><br />My one bone of contention - and it's really more of a hair-width fish bone than anything else - is that in China it is very possible to keep trial proceedings out of broad circulation even when they are controversial or if the public has a strong interest in the outcome. I daren't be as optimistic about Ms 'Bo Gu' Kailai's fate as you seem to be allowing for, though I grant you that the CCP may be expected to wrap things up with as little fuss as possible.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com